Is that even possible? Well, to begin
with, what you call a good relationship is not what a narcissist
calls a good relationship. I suspect you mean kindness, compassion,
empathy, trust, mutual respect, and a deep, mature love. Most of us
know only too well how hard it is to have that at all, but with a
narcissist? I'm afraid not.
Narcissists are not capable of being
this way...oh, they know it when they see it, and can imitate it for
a while, but as Mark Twain said, they know the words but not the
tune. They are completely unable to actually do these things over
time because it's all an act and not a natural result of deep love.
Couldn't I just explain this to them so
they'd find a way to change, maybe with therapy? Well, the
narcissist would have no idea what you were talking about. It's as
if you were to say to a person who had been deaf for his whole life
that something sounded like a bell. How would the person know what a
bell sounds like? They know what a bell looks like, but they have no
experience of a bell. So, explaining is futile. Besides, since how
they are is all they've ever known, then they can't conceive of there being anything wrong with them.
Let's try another example. Since I am
a normal, empathetic person, if I was acting in a movie, I could play
a cold blooded, evil person with no conscience, but I wouldn't be
one. I'd be acting the part, not becoming that person. Likewise,
the narcissist can act the part of an empathetic person, but they can
never become one. However, their acting is so good that they fool us
into thinking they are a normal, empathetic person just like us.
However, after a while, their true self
comes to the fore, because the normal person they are playing is not
who they are inside. The other factor is that narcissists enjoy the
process of abuse, which is why they do it for seemingly no reason.
Enjoyment of sadistic pleasure is the reason. I enjoy gardening and
baseball....so, I do them, and it's as simple as that.
The narcissist is always self centered
and ego driven, and strongly driven to gain supply. A combination of
maximizing their supply, feeling powerful by being in control, and
from abusing, is their way of seeing the world, and you can see that
this is so totally different from your own, that telling them they
need to change would mean nothing.
Once our basic needs are fulfilled for
food, shelter, and the like, the most valuable things to us are our
human relations, especially with our partner. Our feelings of love,
compassion, kindness, our spiritual life, empathy, plus our
happiness for other people's happiness, are our most important, and
most fulfilling things in our lives.
The narcissist, however, feels none of
these and so, is an empty shell, which they try to fill up with
possessions, status, the admiration of others, sex, and other sources
of supply. They are otherwise completely empty and may express this by saying they don't really know
who they are, because there are only what they see reflected back to
them from other people.
So, we are GIVERS. But, the narcissist
is a TAKER. We give love and acceptance because we know that this
makes the other happy. The narcissist does what they do to make
THEMSELVES feel better, not you. We believe (wrongly, as it turns
out), that all people are capable of being good. The narcissist
believes that all people are just like them and are hypocrites who
won't admit it.
When a problem arises, we seek to
resolve it....but the narcissist seeks to win at all costs. We make
a mistake, we admit it and apologize....the narcissist blames you or
someone else. We feel warm when we are kind and compassionate....the
narcissist is a consummate manipulator. We forgive....the narcissist
has to have revenge. We prize loyalty and fidelity.....the
narcissist prizes novelty and new supply.
So, now you can see just how impossible
it is to have a lasting relationship with a narcissist. No matter
how long you stay with the narcissist, or how loving you are, or how
forgiving, or how loyal, the narcissist will invariably lie, cheat,
steal, abuse you, and bad mouth you to others, because it is NEVER
about your happiness. Everything the narcissist does is for
themselves and their ego....to get what they want.
My questions is: Is this how you want
to live?
I have been reading quite a bit about these narcissists, and I have a few thoughts. First, I am entirely convinced that I live with one. Second, I struggle with the "evil" element of it all. While I agree that he is selfish, lies, denies, etc., I don't think his goal is to punish and abuse me. It's more like dealing with a bad kid. Has he bought me a gift only to be the one to use it? yes. Has he lied about things both big and small, even when its not necessary? yes. Have I seen him go into a store while I wait in the car with our 4 kids and come out with an ice cream cone for himself and no one else? yes. Chatting up chicks on the internet and denying anything more? yep. Are we going to make it? It's not looking good. I am the giver and he is the taker. Maybe it's my whole view of the thing that looks at him and thinks that he is a big, spoiled, self-indulgent kid who lies because kids lie when they're afraid of getting caught. I know it comes from his crappy childhood (even though he was well loved) that he learned these behaviors, and I don't think it's an excuse for a 46 year old man to act that way. But I also don't think it's his goal in life to torture, demean and abuse me. Maybe I just don't let him. And believe it or not I don't hate him for it. I feel sorry for him, and sorry for our kids. Can't it be possible for a person to be a narcissist without being "evil"? Can they be counselled? And lastly, a lot of these posts are very bitter, although I guess I get it. "My NEx did this" and "Her Nex did that".. I hope that I can let go and live in peace!
ReplyDeleteThat's amazing, because I was wondering if I'm the ONLY one who doesn't think my ex did certain terrible things to actually destroy me, but because he's a 55 year old child, and a damn selfish, unfeeling one. Although there were times when he'd get in a rage and do really odd things against me, like making an fb page in my name telling the world how much I love him and how obsessed I am. (I actually still don't know why he did that one; I found it by sheer coincidence by googling my name and he never explained it. I just brushed it off. "He's a bit nuts, forget it, etc...." But besides for a few weird things like that, I always convinced myself that he does have a heart deep down. I'm still not sure. He left me 2 months ago for a MARRIED slut who doesn't want to leave her husband ( because he has money, my ex doesn't) rich before WE were to get married. She supposedly threw herself at him ( that much I believe) he took what came his way, and I found out about it coincidentally. I would have even taken him back at THAT point, but he dropped me. She's unattractive, unintelligent, and rotten to the core. All the things I'm not. And I know he'll crawl back to me when it's over, because I have money. But he'll get a big surprise this time. No more.
DeleteYeah, I kind of agree with you there. It's almost a year since I finally got away from mine. I was very, very attached to him - he had to work REALLY hard to drive me away. Being on dating sites and even having another girlfriend weren't enough, he literally had to turn into a sort of evil caricature of a human being - I mean really low 'kick her while she's down' stuff - taking back gifts he'd given me and regifting them to new girls - incessantly texting the OW when we were together and talk about how disturbed / lame / sad I was right in front of me - or leave me alone crying in his flat at night to go over to the other girl's place. Was he actually evil? At the time, I thought so - for a year I was spending about 4 hours a day in tears over the evil shit he'd say and do (and this after having been a perfectly lovely, sweet guy for two years). Even at the time, though, I knew he felt terribly guilty about it. And in retrospect his bad behaviour just seems so faked and ridiculous, I don't think even he really believed it. The thing is - they HAVE to turn into these creatures, because they're driven by their insecurity to keep the cycle going. They're terrified that everyone else has a better life than they do, so settling down with a girl seems like failure to them - as soon as there's one of the normal 'road bumps' in life they inevitably start to resent their partners and think every other girl in the world is prettier, smarter, more successful, cuter, and more worthy of them than the person they are with. The girls who aren't really that concerned about it will just walk away when they start to turn. The ones who are really smitten will stay and argue and try to understand. That's when they have to get REALLY ugly - and honestly I think, tragically, the better your relationship is, the uglier they have to get, because they have to justify in their heads why they are destroying a perfectly good relationship. And to do that they have to make themselves believe the worst about you, which means telling themselves a hundred times a day that you have some sort of problem, training themselves to see and comment only on your faults, working hard to bring out the worst so they can point and say 'see? I told you so'. So no, I don't think they're all evil. Some at least are the victim of their insecurities, not in control or able to understand what they are really doing - but unfortunately that brings a huge amount of pain and awfulness into the lives of those who love them.
ReplyDeleteAnd no, I don't think it's possible to have a good relationship with them. It'll be the best thing you've ever experienced for 6 months max, then the worst thing you've ever experienced for however much longer you stick around.
ReplyDeleteAnon you are sooooo correct
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